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学科交叉的一个例子:seismic oceanography

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RuChen 发表于 2010-11-30 14:24:00 | 显示全部楼层 |阅读模式
本帖最后由 RuChen 于 2010-11-30 14:44 编辑

海洋学发展的一个关键是观测技术的突破,物理海洋学的观测有各种各样的方法和仪器,比如:satellite,drifter,mooring, ship, acoustics 等,但是一个挑战性的问题是如何获得高时空分辨率的资料来更好的研究小尺度和中尺度过程,seismic oceanography是可以取得物理海洋领域高分辨率数据的新方法,这一新技术把地球物理学的技术思想应用到物理海洋学领域。下面这个图来自http://steveholbrook.com/research/seismic_oceanography/,我们可以从图上看到千米尺度的structure,反演之后,这些structure可以告诉我们mesoscale 和submesoscale 过程的奥秘。

目前活跃在这个领域的科学家之一是W. Steven Holbrook,这是他的网页:
http://steveholbrook.com/research/seismic_oceanography/
另一个该领域的科学家是我一个同学的导师Ray Schmitt, 很nice的一个人,我和他简单讨论过这方面的问题,他的网页是http://www.whoi.edu/profile.do?id=rschmitt
这里有介绍这一技术的video:http://www.cmima.csic.es/sow/files/sow/flash/video2
wikipedia对这个新技术的介绍:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Use ... eismic_oceanography

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lina 发表于 2010-12-1 20:21:15 | 显示全部楼层
我们讲seismic processing&inversion 也有介绍过这个的  很有趣
 楼主| RuChen 发表于 2010-12-2 04:16:50 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 RuChen 于 2010-12-2 04:20 编辑

是吗?真好!我没在课上学过。能介绍给我们一些相关资料不?哪个课上学的啊?
这个观测方法要是成熟了会对物理海洋研究产生比较大的影响。
孙田昊哲 发表于 2010-12-3 20:07:50 | 显示全部楼层
这个方向我真的觉得很不错哎~~我学了一些 exploration seismology 的课,当时就觉得要是只做油气藏很无聊, 要是可以用勘探地震学的方法来做这样一些科学问题真的很有趣!
有没有哪位老师、师兄、师姐能够告诉我,美国哪些研究所学有这样的方向呢?
 楼主| RuChen 发表于 2010-12-3 23:43:41 | 显示全部楼层
你可以在scholar.google.com上搜索:seismic oceanography, 可以从搜出来的文章作者单位上看出哪些学校有做这个方向,另外,哪个学校在哪段时间做这个方向应该也跟funding的走向有关。
 楼主| RuChen 发表于 2010-12-3 23:47:29 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 jlinwhoi 于 2011-2-21 00:53 编辑

另外,这里介绍了了解课题发展趋势的方法,如果感兴趣可以用web of science了解一下这个方向的发展现状:
http://www.joyocean.org/home/spa ... ;do=blog&id=947
jlinwhoi 发表于 2010-12-4 15:27:21 | 显示全部楼层
回复 1# RuChen
Steve Holbrook与我同一年到达WHOI,在地质与地球物理系,因此有了与物理海洋系的Ray Schmitt教授合作的机会。后来Steve去Wyoming大学当教授。
wuzhenli 发表于 2010-12-7 21:26:03 | 显示全部楼层
国内地球所宋老师对地震海洋学也有研究,搞的人还是比较少
 楼主| RuChen 发表于 2010-12-8 02:06:24 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 RuChen 于 2010-12-8 02:10 编辑

这个方向比较新,人少很正常。听说欧洲有一批科学家做这方面的研究,不知道是不是真的,我没调查过。好像有些毕业生去了油公司,没有继续这方面的研究。
xinhuangwhoi 发表于 2011-1-8 04:02:04 | 显示全部楼层
回复 9# RuChen

I believe this is potentially one of the best way to study eddies in the ocean.  Study eddies is one of the hottest frontiers in physical oceanography. Most methods we used currently are not suitable for collecting complete information about the structure of eddies in the ocean. Seismic Oceanography can do it in a way different from other traditional mean. By the way, I do not like the name. it is better to call it acoustic oceanography.

   
I hope to have time to write up a better explanation soon.
 楼主| RuChen 发表于 2011-1-8 04:26:01 | 显示全部楼层
欢迎黄老师加入JOYOEAN大家庭!我是从黄老师那里第一次听到seismic oceanography这个方向的。 我们期待着黄老师关于这一前沿问题更深刻更好的解释。
jlinwhoi 发表于 2011-1-8 09:58:49 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 jlinwhoi 于 2011-1-8 10:03 编辑

回复 10# xinhuangwhoi

By the way, I do not like the name. it is better to call it acoustic oceanography.

同感。

我的困惑是acoustic oceanography已经发展了几十年,为什么突然用海洋地震方法反而出了新的重要结果?是因为传统的acoustic oceanography实验用的声频不对,还是传统acoustic实验的接收器(receivers)阵列不够长或接收器放得不够密?
xinhuangwhoi 发表于 2011-1-8 11:22:45 | 显示全部楼层
我认为,许多学科的发展是先建立大尺度的框架,然后往中小尺度前进。物理海洋也是从大尺度环流做起,WOCE就是从80年代末到90年代,主要是搞清大洋环流。目前的研究重心已经转到中尺度涡。acoustic oceanography 比较适合用于中尺度涡。以为它的分辨率很高,但同时要花很多钱。 Munk 在90年代提出用这种方法做大洋,但是结果不好。以为路径太长时,可能出现多条ray path, 导致解的不确定性。Ray Schmitt 最近写过proposal. reviewers 都说好,但是NSF说太贵,不肯资助。acoustic oceanography 要成功还要克服很多技术困难。例如,如何把internal waves 和各种各样的涡分开。。。林间教授所提的几个问题都有关系,我希望年轻的网友在这方面做努力,争做个“闯关东”的开路先锋。
 楼主| RuChen 发表于 2011-1-8 11:53:42 | 显示全部楼层
这里有本acoustic oceanography 方面的书,可以免费下载,如果下载不了,请跟我联系
http://www.archive.org/details/basicacousticoce00schu
 楼主| RuChen 发表于 2011-1-8 12:04:44 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 RuChen 于 2011-1-8 12:14 编辑

谢谢黄老师和林老师的精彩讨论。 看了你们的讨论,我联想起另一种有意思的观测手段, 把仪器绑在seal身上,seals可以潜到深海,这样可以获得深海的数据 (可能大家都知道深海数据是很难采集的)。新观测手段的不断涌现非常振奋人心。下面这个网址有关于这一方法的科普介绍。内容我贴在16楼了
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/08/080812135658.htm
 楼主| RuChen 发表于 2011-1-8 12:07:39 | 显示全部楼层

【转载】Southern Ocean Seals Dive Deep For Climate Data

本帖最后由 RuChen 于 2011-1-8 12:11 编辑



According to a paper published today by a team of French, Australian, US and British scientists in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, elephant seals fitted with special oceanographic sensors are providing a 30-fold increase in data recorded in parts of the Southern Ocean rarely observed using traditional ocean monitoring techniques.
“They have made it possible for us to observe large areas of the ocean under the sea ice in winter for the first time,” says co-author Dr Steve Rintoul from the Antarctic Climate & Ecosystem Cooperative Research Centre (ACE CRC) and CSIRO’s Wealth from Oceans National Research Flagship.

"Conventional oceanographic platforms cannot provide observations under the sea ice, particularly on the Antarctic continental shelf where the most important water mass transformations take place.  Until now, our ability to represent the high-latitude oceans and sea ice in oceanographic and climate models has suffered as a result.”

“They have made it possible for us to observe large areas of the ocean under the sea ice in winter for the first time,”

says co-author Dr Steve Rintoul from the Antarctic Climate & Ecosystem Cooperative Research Centre (ACE CRC) and CSIRO’s Wealth from Oceans National Research Flagship.

Co-author, University of Tasmania Professor Mark Hindell says the seal data complements traditional oceanographic sampling from ships, satellites and drifting buoys. “By providing ocean measurements under the sea ice, the seals are helping us to establish the global ocean observing system we need to detect and understand changes in the ocean,” he says.

The polar regions play an important role in the earth’s climate system and are changing more rapidly than any other part of the world. In the southern hemisphere, the limited observations available suggest that the circumpolar Southern Ocean has warmed more rapidly than the global ocean average and that the dense water formed near Antarctica and exported to lower latitudes has freshened in some locations and warmed in others. Polar changes are important because a number of feedbacks involving ocean currents, sea ice and the carbon cycle have the potential to accelerate the rate of change.

The seals typically covered a distance of 35-65 kilometres a day with a total of 16,500 profiles obtained in 2004-5. Of these, 8,200 were obtained south of 60S, nine times more than have been obtained from floats and research and supply ships. The 4,520 profiles obtained within the sea ice is a 30-fold increase over conventional data. The seals dived repeatedly to a depth of more than 500 metres on average and to a maximum depth of nearly 2000m. The Australian team included scientists from CSIRO, the ACE CRC, the University of Tasmania's School of Zoology and Centre for Marine Science and Charles Darwin University.

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 楼主| RuChen 发表于 2011-1-11 04:56:49 | 显示全部楼层
这一观测手段发现了不易观测的internal tide。
【转载】First Study to Show That Seismic Imaging Detects Ocean's Internal Tides
Internal tides, waves below the ocean's surface that propagate at tidal frequencies, play an important role in ocean mixing but can be difficult to detect and study.

Holbrook et al. found they can detect these waves with seismic imaging. Using seismic data acquired in the Norwegian Sea, the authors observed bands of reflections that indicate internal tides.
The study is the first to show that seismic imaging can be used to detect internal tides and demonstrates that seismic oceanography could be an important tool in the study of ocean mixing.
The research appears in the journal Geophysical Research Letters.
Authors include W. Steven Holbrook, Department of Geology and Geophysics, University of Wyoming; Ilker Fer, Geophysical Institute, University of Bergen; Raymond W. Schmitt, Department of Physical Oceanography, Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution.
hbsong 发表于 2011-1-20 10:00:20 | 显示全部楼层
回复 8# wuzhenli


    供地球物理海洋学或地震海洋学感兴趣的朋友参考:
1、欧盟的GO(Geophysical Oceanography,2006-2009)项目
http://www.dur.ac.uk/eu.go/general_public/project_info.html
2、1st ESF Exploratory Workshop on Seismic Oceanography(Begur (Spain) November 19-21, 2008 )
http://www.cmima.csic.es/sow/con ... eismic-oceanography

3、Water Column Seismic Images as Maps of Temperature Gradient (1.6 MB pdf)
By B. Ruddick, H. Song, C. Dong, and L. Pinheiro
http://www.tos.org/oceanography/issues/issue_archive/22_1.html
hbsong 发表于 2011-1-20 10:17:00 | 显示全部楼层
回复 12# jlinwhoi


    林教授很聪明,提出了这两个疑问,我试图回答一下(其实欧盟GO项目和我们发表在Oceanography上的论文有这方面的说明):看美女吧,要用眼睛看,用显微镜就不妥了,对海洋热盐细结构到中尺度的量级(10m-100km),常规的低频地震勘探是最合适的,这是天意,海洋声学用的是几千Hz以上的频率;此外,海洋声学用的主要的是透射波,积分效应,知道几项的和,想知道每一项的数值,是难的,地震海洋学用的是反射波,海水层各层的信息是先、后到达的,容易给出海洋内部结构;另外由于石油作为工业的血液,太多的钱,太多的人(不乏聪明人),已经使反射地震学这门学科成为名副其实的高科技,有人甚至说,没有反射地震学,就没有现代油气工业,印证了毛主席的话“人多力量大!”.。。。见面再详细聊。
zyliu 发表于 2011-1-20 23:02:49 | 显示全部楼层
回复 19# hbsong


    宋老师的回答很精辟,通俗易懂!
 楼主| RuChen 发表于 2011-1-21 12:53:19 | 显示全部楼层
回复 20# zyliu
嗯,和你同感。
go223 发表于 2011-1-24 10:54:56 | 显示全部楼层
相当感兴趣!
 楼主| RuChen 发表于 2011-1-25 11:47:09 | 显示全部楼层
回复 22# go223
谢谢关注!
 楼主| RuChen 发表于 2011-1-25 11:51:24 | 显示全部楼层
最近发现一本书的链接(Oceanographic and Geophysical Tomography,是关于inverse methods, seismology 和 acoustic tomography的。
http://www.ipgp.fr/~tarantola/Fi ... l/Books/LesHouches/
希望这本书对研究学习seismic oceanography的朋友有用。
go223 发表于 2011-1-25 13:21:02 | 显示全部楼层
回复 24# RuChen

谢谢分享
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